Talk:Problem with fan noise
Contents
Problem with fan noise on R51 1829 L7G (ATI M9)
On my R51 the fan is behaving like this:
- > 45C -> fan on;
- < 38C -> fan off.
By using cpufreq + laptop_mode + Xorg DynamicClocks + WiFi power management, I get the fan stopped time to time, but only for 3 minutes time (transition from 38 C -> 45 C). The cooling down cycle is taking 20 minutes in the best case.
I knew about the 'ibm_acpi experimental=1' trick, but in my opinion this is not very useful since nobody can guarantee that a temperature greater then 45 C will not damage the laptop and in the same time the transition time is very short (the laptop gets hot fast without fan).
Thinkpad T42 Radeon Mobility M7
When Xorg is running, the fan is always on and pretty loud ! Setting DynamicClocks does not help
it's clear that the GPU is the problem on the thinkpad :
after 10minutes with the fan off temperatures: 44 47 33 52 32 -128 24 -128
1: CPU 2: Mini PCI Module 3: HDD 4: GPU 5: Battery 6: N/A 7: Battery 8: N/A
Controlling the fan speed would be really cool !
What is the maximum temperature not to cross ?
Older versions of xorg (i.e. 6.7.0) don't seem to be able to use the DynamicClocks option although it's set in the xorg.conf. Search the log to find out if it's really used.
Thinkpad R32 with Radeon Mobility M6
Updating xorg-x11 from 6.7.0 to 6.8.2 and using Speedstep (with the ondemand module in this case) helped cooling the system down significantly:
- before updating the CPU was ~62 C in idle state, and got very near the critical temperature (72 C) during heavy load - I even got some freezes because of the heat ;)
- after the update the CPU is ~54 C in idle state, and still gets to about 68 C while under heavy load
The second sensor (which may be the GPU) is somehow fixed to 50 C (maybe a bug?)
The fan on the R32 is behaving like this:
- > 61 -> fan in state 2 (quite noisy)
- < 55 -> fan in state 1 (less noisy :) )
But I remember using my old SuSE distribution with kernel 2.4.16, apm and some old x11 version the fan actually stopped completely from time to time.
Concerning the maximum temperature of the CPU, I found that the critical temperature on the R32 for the CPU sensor is 72 C
(using # cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THM0/trip_points )
Fan Control script: more save version
ibm_acpi works well on my R50 and R51. But to rely on it completely, I modified the script in two ways:
1. It catches verious signals and turns the fan on before it quits
2. It turns off the fan under very strict conditions, leaving it on when unexpected errors occur.
Here is my script:
#!/bin/sh
# july 2005 Erik Groeneveld, erik@cq2.nl
# More conservatiev and saver version
# It make sure the fan is on in case of errors
# and only turns it off when all temps are ok.
IBM_ACPI=/proc/acpi/ibm
THERMOMETER=$IBM_ACPI/thermal
FAN=$IBM_ACPI/fan
MAXTRIPPOINT=65
MINTRIPPOINT=60
TRIPPOINT=$MINTRIPPOINT
echo fancontrol: Thermometer: $THERMOMETER, Fan: $FAN
echo fancontrol: Current `cat $THERMOMETER`
echo fancontrol: Controlling temperatures between $MINTRIPPOINT and $MAXTRIPPOINT degrees.
# Make sure the fan is turned on when the script crashes or is killed
trap "echo enable > $FAN; exit 0" HUP KILL INT ABRT STOP QUIT SEGV TERM
while [ 1 ];
do
command=enable
temperatures=`sed s/temperatures:// < $THERMOMETER`
result=
for temp in $temperatures
do
test $temp -le $TRIPPOINT && result=$result.Ok
done
if [ "$result" = ".Ok.Ok.Ok.Ok.Ok.Ok.Ok.Ok" ]; then
command=disable
TRIPPOINT=$MAXTRIPPOINT
else
command=enable
TRIPPOINT=$MINTRIPPOINT
fi
echo $command > $FAN
# Temperature ramps up quickly, so pick this not too large:
sleep 5
done
I added this script to the other ones. Don't wander about my talk edits, i didn't realize i was on the talk page. Wyrfel 01:48, 13 Aug 2005 (CEST)
X41
Same fan problem here on the X41. Once it starts it won't stop (unless it is _very_ cold outside). Undervolting the CPU doesn't help - still the same problem.
Fan speed control?
Only the X31 and X40 have an ACPI method for controlling the FAN speed (this is why ibm_acpi provides this functionality just for these models).
What will happen if we take the "FANS" method from the X40 DSDT, paste it into a iasl-disassembled DSDT of (say) a T43, recompile it and tell the kernel to use the patched DSDT? ibm_acpi will present the functionality, but it may or may not work.
--Thinker 16:16, 28 Sep 2005 (CEST)
Any risk of damaging the hardware when doing this? E.g. what does occur if the system overheats - will the CPU be destroyed are does it automatically switch of? As I've just bought a new X41 I don't want to take any stupid risks - but otherwise I'd say let's try it out.
--gst Thu Sep 29 18:14:13 CEST 2005
I think Intel CPUs have some built-in thermal protection, but I'd hate to test it. And of course, any fiddling with the hardware at this level might damage it. That said, when the CPU is mostly idle it keeps a reasonable temperature even when the fan is disabled, so as long as you keep an eye on both the CPU usage meter and /proc/acpi/ibm/thermal, things should be pretty safe temperature-wise. For extra safety you can force the CPU to its lowest speed via /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq. --Thinker 18:33, 29 Sep 2005 (CEST)
Further information
I've just found a very interesting thread regarding the same issue on HP notebooks. IMO it provides many insight information about heat/fan problems in general, the URL is: http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=853249 Especially the posts by the HP engineer "Andy Fisher" are very interesting. IBM should be able to provide the same BIOS fix as HP did (maybe I should have bought an HP notebook instead of a Thinkpad?).
I've also contacted IBM/Lenovo support via the website about the fan issue. Maybe it helps when others do this as well (especially people who bought larger quantities) so that this issue is taken serious by Lenovo. Is there already any official response to this problem?
--gst Thu Sep 29 19:40:34 CEST 2005
Two of the changes mentioned by the HP engineer make perfect sense here: raise the low trip points and make speed transition gradual. Oh, and get rid of the annoying beat pattern (a brief speed pulse every few seconds) it sometimes gets into!
But from our perspective, what would probably be best is to do the whole thing in software, providing the flexibility for personal preferences and smart decisions. The hardware would only enforce emergency override or throttle/shutdown for extreme temperatures. Then we could do cute things like having a software daemon lower the thresholds in a noisy environment (as judged using the built-in microphone) or when the laptop is on the user's lap (as judged by the built-in accelometers).
--Thinker 18:47, 30 Sep 2005 (CEST)
I noticed that on my T43 the fan is usually in one of two modes, low speed (around 3300 RPM, triggered around CPU=47deg) and medium speed (around 4100 RPM, can't figure out the trip condition). The former is nearly inaudible, but the latter is quite noticable in the absense of strong background noises.
Now, the problem is that once it has tripped into medium speed, it usually never comes back to low speed until the next reboot. So once it happens, to quiet things down I can only run one of the fan-disabling scripts given here. But with a disabled fan the T43 is not thermally stable, so it will spend its time moving back and forth between the hysteresis thresholds, i.e., toggling between 4100 RPM and 0 RPM every few minutes. This is quite silly and annoying, when staying at low speed would be both more stable and more quiet.
I hope someone will find a way to control the fan speed, or at least to reset the embedded controller's hysteresis state.
--Thinker 10:29, 6 Oct 2005 (CEST)
When you do changes to e.g. the Energy Schema in Windows or you eject the Thinkpad of the Docking Station it seems that the controllers state is rest. At least on the X41 the fan does stop until it reaches the threshold to start some minutes later. So it should be doable.
Works fine with APM instead of ACPI?
On my X41 the fan starts after about 10 minutes of use and doesn't stop (until it is rather cold in my room - and even then it runs most of the time ;) A friend of mine who has a X41 too (though another model) and who does use NetBSD and APM doesn't experience this problem. He claims that the fan only comes up if the system is not idle. So either it is colder in his room, the X41 model which he has doesn't have this flaw or APM does use different tresholds than ACPI.
- Then why not just try the
acpi=offkernel parameter and see what happens? --Thinker 18:14, 30 Sep 2005 (CEST)
I currently don't have physical access to the X41. Will try in a few days.
